Egor Danilov. What has changed since your last interview. Sergey Belan. Changed internal understanding.
Then we saw that there is a major competitor abroad — Lumocity — which 30-40 million users that the idea is popular. So you can run in Russia a similar online service, with easily scalable. Sergey Belan (left). Now is the understanding that this business is not easy, because in Russia people given little thought to the development of their brain.
In Russia all understand that you need to the gym to walk, that muscles were that the wallet must be fat. And the fact that the brain is everything, I think only units. The second is that it is not an easy business from the point of view of commercialization.
We were inspired by the example of LinguaLeo — they made a product that received investments. We thought well rip foreign Lumocity, just bring them in science from MSU. But we didnt tally the numbers. Small conversions, little traffic, small medium check.
And thirdly, changed the attitude towards the product. First, we wanted to quickly raise money. “Now we start, put here x money, will do on the knee service, run, raise money, and then the money are going to invest in a product”. But the money we raised, we were unprofitable. Even tried one time to chop as much as possible, just to earn money.
Now we are to strive to do use. Invested in the methodology in the product itself. How you have improved the product.
The composition of simulators has changed. Prior to that, if we saw this or that weak side of man, we give him more equipment to it. But to improve logical thinking, for example, do not need to give 10 simulators on logical thinking. You need to give a special algorithm simulators on the perception that information to better understand, then to memory, to save it, and then give logic.
Before improve logical thinking, you need to prepare the soil. Now running a very powerful system that works on a very complex algorithm. In addition to building special-order equipment necessary for the functions of the brain and its properties, all trainers have adaptive and personalized level of complexity.
Although we understand that income is not affected, but in doing so we bear a lot more useful than ever before. Now simulators are already doing a completely new generation with the use of a neural interface. These simulators are not yet in the world — we are the first who methodologically and technically it can take. Recently we talked about them on TV channel “Russia 24”.
Interestingly, if you change the landing page to make a couple of A/B tests on tariffs and something to visually change is going to affect the conversion directly. But we are improving the product to affect the amount of money, and on the size of the value that we bring to people. And so we order a methodology at the testing center at MSU. Spend much time with them.
Before that, I was as. There is a person who is versed in cognitive simulators. And this man says, how to do. And were doing thats so and so. And if you ask me.
“Tell me about the higher functions of the brain”, I couldnt give the answer and answered. “I for business”. But now I have a whole team, each team member can easily talk about the brain, the neural interface, how to improve brain. We all are engaged in “Wikihome”.
I already can not what to talk, but to argue for the improvement of the brain. What is needed is a radical approach, not the surface. And wildly happy that “Vitium” changed us and our thinking. Our attitude to business and product.
And the developers?. Including developers, designers, PR, project managers, someone who deals with feedback from users, even those who are in cold calling B2B, all they can talk about the brain. All they can tell you what to do, to eat, to work better brain. What needs to be done to improve attention.
They all go in the testing center at MSU “Humanitarian technologies”, trainings. All my knowledge that I get from working with scientists, I also broadcast team. My horizons of communication on the subject of work and productivity of the brain is greatly extended and is not limited to experts from Russia. Now from Israel advise us on the proper compilation of the brain diet.
I pumped himself in this area. What is this. Again — has changed the attitude to the product. I just love what I do. As a business and the benefits that we cause.
I began to understand what people need. All these conversions can tweak. You can even sew up an algorithm that will always show the user a success. But its a hoax.
We live in a world highest level of integrity. And we have some really there is no progress in the early days, it will be then, but from the point of view of making a purchasing decision, we understand that we are losing revenue. Also there is a caveat — this is the effect in life, not in the statistics.
At once its hard to see, and actually, people really begin to better process information, less distracted, more focused, increases immunity. In order to notice it — you need to test yourself. I would recommend to try to read a book in the subway. Indeed, it becomes much easier, and then the person begins to realize that the ice in his head started. And then the user begins to engage intensively.
As you type the command. I loved to recruit and nurture. To recruit students and to grow from them professionals. Now I understand that its wrong.
Now the team is not any cheap employee. So I buy professional. Before that I had a strategy. “Lets hire cheaper it is unclear whom, they would cut, to do something.
We invest less in the product and will earn more”. And in the end have gonaked at the output, which is buggy and I. We are still not able to understand some things. That is, divide by zero, we have sometimes found in the code.
It did so first employees, they just was too lazy to edit a bug — they did divide by zero. And look for it then in thousands of lines of code. What “Vitium” is now in numbers. “Vecima” cash-flow while unprofitable, because I have an expensive team and we are currently mashtabiruemuju.
We have twice been to bed from the traffic, and went not out of capacity. Fell solely because of code that was written by people without motivation. New registrations per day maximum we had 4 500 the day Adme wrote about us. And free, may God give them good health.
Then we repostor large Ukrainian website, like “Komsomolskaya Pravda”. And we went back. We immediately saw two bottlenecks. First with Adme dropped, expanded and everything was fine, got it, but then the more wood was tossed.
Fixed power, code and sent all the letters. “Now work”, and we are having another surge went, but this time everything went like clockwork. Now we have more than 150 thousand users. The growth rate was increased in 5 times compared to last interview vc.ru.
That is, they direct good. From the point of view of revenue, we have increased by 8 times. Well, the point of view of business valuation during the year we increased 5 times. This is according to the latest assessment, which was a few months ago from the same Fund.
On investment we then refused. We understood that we will now take a number of steps that can very quickly increase the prospectivity of the project, we realized that it is better to first do these steps, and then well talk about the investment again. Every new investor is the speed loss. Development, decision making.
Now heres a new round of negotiations started — need money for new developments. We now simulators using neural interface do — and much more, no one does, so as soon as we in Russia have a strong scientific background. What you grew fivefold.
First — HADI switched to cycles. Each week we look at what stage and what can be poured onto the release to the test server. We do a lot to be more sustainable and have a minimal number of bugs, but for such a huge platform to calculate everything, unfortunately, not always possible. Due to the higher stability, we have significantly increased the speed and accuracy of experiments. With marketing we have a weekly iteration goes.
Do the tasks how to earn more money and improve conversion. The methodology we are going month. For example, to make a new course. The second one started to work with the first session of the user. In the first session there are open and closed loops.
Previously, when the user has finished the exercise, we wrote “what is your current workout is finished.”. The cycle is closed. Well, OK, its finished and all, bye. Now we have tested a few of the final stages — but none leading to the closure of the cycle.
Theres always a chance to practice yet (this increases the collision with the value), or to go to other branches of content. Made of special assistant to the leading site in difficult places. The third — identified key metrics (conversion in registration, activation, sales, average ticket, return, time on site in one day), which we can influence, and before doing something, see how it will affect metrics.
Before that I had a job to do email-newsletter, just email newsletter. All do and we do. Why. That is the question — why. Now I can tell what metrics e-marketing increases, and what drops.
You can increase the return, but if the letter is not good, the incentive to buy will not be. I rented the house, took the command, forced everyone to switch off mobile phones, Internet, wrote key metrics and said. “how can we affect a particular metric. Come on, throw me the steps”.
Everyone began to throw ideas. “well let our users to give awards”, “lets make a competition”, “courses” and so on, and then I gathered it all and drew a special card where everything was clearly visible and. And then turned to the team. “and now I spend a parallel that to that effect”.
When you see ideas and metrics next, decision-making becomes much easier. And the team it is important to know why this functionality I decided to invest the time. How do you determine what equipment will be included in the free part “Vecima”?. We used to try all the cool trainers paid to do.
And free — so so. And now were doing everything good, its honest. How to determine what the simulator is cool. We thought for a long time how to do it.
And we did a competition. That is, we had a competition, you can workout in the simulator. Money competitions do not benefit. But they bring an understanding of what the trainer is good and what isnt.
We already have a certain standard of efficiency, and if the trainer is not bad develops people — it stays on the shelf, as it is not sad. All should be helpful. I dont want my service was 50 simulators, half success, half failure. The equipment that will be “not useful”, I dont need.
Some we improve, please reference numerals. And its cool because, for example, if I was in the car, would people set cars on a test drive. Different. I just bought her when, sitting in the package, and shes too clever.
And then you look at its price, but its too big. And then you look other equipment. “Damn, dont want”. And somehow, in the test drive very fancy version.
And we need to give and even easier. And I would have tested what version I have more people trying it for a test drive. And then on the test drive gave this version, which is the most popular. It is the effect of free competition for gives me a benchmark in which the simulator that need to be improved to make it more interesting. And I think on any service.
I always wonder how anyone works email marketing. Tell me about your experience. We did a very extensive logic, there have under 30 letters. These 30 letters is my script.
Went there, but did not come in — so this letter. Opened the tariffs, but not bought — its a letter. We see that using email messages generally very good growing retentn, but we also noticed that increasing the dissatisfaction of the users. Were very aggressive scenario, for example I tried the first three days to bomb the man of letters to display on the purchase.
Discounts, discounts, discounts. We had a hypothesis that we have a majority of sales in the first three days — like not sorry, but the cycle is longer than we have. Yes, we sell at the moment increased, but we have increased negative background from users. “guys, you say to me?”, and in the long term we lose.
The Board of “advisors” to push for sale from the first day cost us dearly. Still interested with the Call-to-Action. Not always in the letter it should be put in the first place.
Of course, it needs to be, but sometimes it worked better when he was on the second scale letters, not first. Email marketing has increased retains 10 percent. 10 percentage points or 10%.
For example, there were 6%, was the 6.6?. 10%, Yes. Was 6,6%. Its not super numbers.
Not super. Overall, it would be better if we did it, because in email marketing we have spent about 300 thousand rubles for a small result. But there and the counselors were not “pushed” by our users, our users began to ohinewai. All is not gold that glitters.
Now here is a new lightweight version rolled out, well see how it works. Where else do attract traffic. It is clear that the Adme was. You buy a context.
What else?. Context. “Yandex”, Google. In Facebook also publish promotiom. It was funny.
I one note he wrote about faith in the success of that without faith nothing is worth doing, I believe in yourself, in your way, in your family and that 2Pac is alive. Coverage of the publication was about 25 thousand, under 500 likes gathered, not a lot. And the other was uncle on the swing pushes children, the children sit on the swings, he swings and has the signature “dangerous when your parents physics, go to “Vitium””. He collected 22 000 likes, 1700 reposts, 600 thousand of coverage. And its all for one money.
Conclusion — the content on social networks needs to be easy and delicious. To hold the eye and evoke emotion. But the traffic on the website is somehow affected or is it purely pumping was the group?. This pumping of the group, but with a group they then go to the site.
That is, the money played in the negative, but I did not immediately see the benefits, not immediately visible conversion. The conversion can be realistically assess after 3 months. Within a week of anything doesnt add up. So I can say.
But the coverage not been canceled. One of my goals is to popularize the idea of brain development. Even if Im part of the lost money, in part to the fact that someone was thinking about their development and begin to change yourself for the better is priceless. That is, you, the user begins to pay off in a month or two or three.
Six months later sometimes. But in General three months. It depends on what channel. And you need to make a decision about buying traffic here and now.
Theoretically, there may be a situation when you went off like $ 1 million in purchasing traffic, and six months later found out that he is not paid off. Are there any triggers or points that users are. That is, if the user passed the point N, then with probability 70%, he will buy next. How do you make a decision about how to buy traffic?. I have a benchmark — registration.
Conversion in registration and in buying from me dancing very much depending on the channel. But in the long run I see that they are all equal to each other catching up. Some dont get it straight at all, but I understand that while Im going to measure, will take a year. And I might lose the market, because someone (for example, Lumocity) will come with a bunch of money on marketing and say.
“Well, all right, time for Spud Russia. No matter how”. And I lose them. So I measure on registrations.
For example, I have a channel. For Example, “Yandex.Direct”. I got some requests to “develop logic” is a good query. Convert them to the Desk I take as a benchmark equal to one. I know how much they earn $ 2 on every invested ruble.
On the other channels is compared with this benchmark. So I quickly launch new channels and quickly see how behaves this traffic in the first stages. If I have a figure of 0.5 or 0.6 relative to the benchmark, Im already at your own risk decide.
While I my gut never failed. With experience you start to feel the traffic. In addition to the registrations, I still have a few benchmarks, but this is a little professional secret. And coupon services tried?.
Tried. Cant say anything good, but too bad. We did something similar when “Vitium” started. Just to sell. Bought — gorgeous.
I now understand that I did not have a product that costs 60 rubles. We are ready to give money for X, but it should not cost a penny. Who do not have enough — they write to us and we give them discounts. We love to communicate with our users.
They appreciate it. What do you use for Analytics traffic?. Using Google Analytics and other services, not all can be trying. Use internal in-house Analytics.
The main task of the internal system — to remember where the user came from and what he was doing. For example, this trained, bought neurons, or not bought neurons, spent the neurons, and what he spent the neurons. Interestingly, this means that he is potentially interesting neurons. In what trainers he played.
What has improved. And back. And the rates looked. And the cost of raising I understand from Google Analytics.
Before that I only watched GA. For example, poured some traffic from AdWords in the converged. So, there should still more. Poured more traffic is not paid off. The logic is in this configuration does not lend itself.
And when they started to use your Analytics and keep track of all, we have come to understand what the user is what you need. We started in the traffic to measure deeper things. For example, the conversion of traffic into your landing page, landing in the passage of the choice of priorities, then registration, then the tests pass, then in the passage of the first day.
I really believe in this business expert, that few people do, since so much time analyzing. Nonetheless, they sit all the answers. First, when I start to advise any business I ask what they cost analyst. And forced to cut his special recommendations.
Yet. We even measure which channel gives you more time on the website. It also gives answers to several questions. Wait tip — try to measure your traffic more efficiently than you do. And you will so many new replies.
Have you tried to test different rates. After all, your product can cost 100 rubles and 10 rubles. We tested 50 types of tariffs and their sets.
That is, we have, for example, was a month, 3 months, year, 2 years, unlimited, and they had different prices. Only month we tested on 270, 290, 180, 350, 370, 490, 990 rubles. The interesting tests passed. For example, 370 cost monthly rate, a semiannual cost 550.
The difference is generally minimal and bought all month. Now I have a semi-worth it for the price of two months. And I now there is a redistribution of the semi-annual and annual. Even from the point of view of development to take on a month — this is wrong, all the magic starts in 2-3 weeks.
So we caused more use, and redistribution of tariffs. Sorry for all of life little take, but it is a question of the market. We tried, for example, to show the benefit of a longer tariff. To write, how much it costs per month, show interest, discounts or bonuses, you can show “You save so much”, to show the months and year, the difference.
It can be shown that the price six months and to write so many months you get a gift. We here tested it. And in the end, you know what we came up. While the value is low — even kill yourself on the tariffs, but the conversion wont change.
You know, as we call it with Artem. Diamond road to the turd. Because the product was bad. Thats when we started to invest in training, that peoples brains were swollen and they felt the benefit of our service.
We have still not bought eternal tariffs, and now we are buying eternal tariffs. Wake up, and there. “You sell, 4900”. And before that we killed a decent time for this conversion.
By the way, have you tried to test very cheap rates?. Tried. The number of purchases has not changed. If a person is ripe, the one who understood the benefits of “Wikihome”, he is not frightened of prices. Since the value that we bring and 2000 rubles a month would be enough, but it is a utopia, so as long as I understand.
Russian people distrustful. Tell me, what worked poorly. About email-list, I realized. For example, a bad experience — what about neurons.
We tried to gameplay in neurons, something to do with these neurons. For example, the simulators can be opened for neurons. The neurons you can do this, this and this. Spent too much energy on writing logic neurons, implemented these neurons. But they dont monetize.
Very rarely buy them. You first session needs to sharpen under a specific user type. Users need to be decomposed into segments. And set 3 cards.
The first card is a “player”. To kill time — its purpose. The second man, who came not only to play, but also to benefit. Yet there are those who understand why he needed “Vitium”.
I need Vakium” to be better than my colleagues to advance in the post” is the developing. We spent a lot of effort on the players, on playing cards of the “Player”. Play cool educational toy and buy. Because people who want to play, play other games.
Even when I want to play, I turn on the Playstation and not “Vitium”. But every day I turn on the “Vitium” to develop your brain — that is the purpose. We the players spent too much energy. Thats just the neurons have been for them.
But it was a great experience. I now know how to quickly understand his client and his segment. So, you tried to convert those who even theoretically couldn skonvertirovatj. And how you have segmented these users.
How did you determine that this is a player, and this is a producer. Some signs?. Only communication. We collected a bunch of responses from users. On the phone, and we wrote them and they answered.
Feedback. And there is direct immediately you can understand. “The game uninteresting” is a player. Qualitative description. “Games youre short”, “you are ugly”, “I Want to play”.
At us the service was “I Want to play more” pay for it neurons. It didnt work at all. Someday we will get to these guys, but first the market needs to feel the theme of brainfitness.
And then we began to read. Someone wrote. “I am fascinated by the statistics of its development, to Me the important scientific component of these games”. So we have in each simulator has a button “Scientific component”. And we see that these users speak our language.
Still has a map of “scientists” are those who are important to get to the bottom. We their needs are being met, so they buy well. Then we look at “developing”. With them hard because they are many different species but they can be handled.
Any office worker, if he is normal and tries in this life is to our client. And we still have people-vegetables. “I work for the money you pay, this app is enough, and thats okay”. Thats all hard to explain.
“Damn, think about your brain”. And so we focused on developing. We favor they are, and they understand us and they pay with gratitude. Everyone is happy.
That is why we have restructured our system of training, so as to give more benefits to those who need it. “The player” and fall off so quickly, but anyone who wants to develop, he is with us for a long time. So playing with him in the long. Even if he does not pay, he can to find a lot of useful things on our website.
Because even from a few trainers in the day there use, but of course it does not compare with our super system. Thats when people take it — and then the magic begins. For example, for logical thinking should be one system, for attention is completely different. The system still needs to adapt for all levels of difficulty. And indeed theres a lot.
With the use of neural interfaces and brain research more deeply we have improved very much. Do you have some seasonality in the business. For example, before the beginning of the school year all think, before the session. There is seasonality, but strange at all.
Weekend buy better. During the new year holidays the whole crying business. “During the new year holidays all drink, relax, nothing to sell”. And we, on the contrary, the bursts in the may holidays, new year holidays. People drank, then.
“Something knocks me. Oh, “Vitium””. Strangely one word. Tell us about your reference about “Invite friends”.
Gives some traffic?. Well gives. Heres the “Invite friends” we did, but they called so-so. And well give lucid partners. That is, the man has a website for self-development.
And were talking. “Come to us, we are ready to give from 35 to 50% of our income”. Every day we 2-3 people added. Now with the “Netologia” lets be friends, theyre nice.
As a percentage of total registration how many?. Percent 5-10. But good. First, they cost nothing at all. Secondly, the people there have come to self-development.
Theyre writing. Who the weights of thirst, who runs, who jumps who meditates. And they say. “Heres a new way to improve yourself, how to improve brain”. Any article, and people come.
There conversion of registration under 30% reaches. Generally, it is normal. Can and more. Can and below 50% to get.